In house Legal Uncovered explores what it takes to make it in house

>> Michael Sachs: Welcome to in house Legal Uncovered, a, major Lindsay and Africa podcast exploring what it takes to make it in house. Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of in House Legal Uncovered in 2024. My name is Michael Sachs and I'm a partner at Major Lindsay in Africa in our in house Counsel recruiting group. My, practice is helping to conduct general counsel searches and other senior level in house searches for all types of companies, from Fortune 100 to family owned organizations and everything in between. The theme of this podcast is candid and engaging conversations with leading individuals in the legal industry. And so far this year, we've spoken to, several general counsels with great insights into the legal industry and how they become successful and what the future is going to bring for lawyers. This week is no different. It is my distinct pleasure to welcome to our show someone who I've known for, probably more than a decade now. In fact, I know it's been more than a decade. Paula Spada, who is an executive vice president and the chief legal officer at White Lodging. Paula, welcome to the in house Legal Uncovered podcast.

>> Paula Spada: Thank you, Michael. Good afternoon.

>> Michael Sachs: Good afternoon.


Paul is executive vice president, chief legal officer at White Lodging

Paula, let me tell the folks just a little bit about your background. Paula is executive vice president, chief legal officer at White Lodging, overseeing all legal and board of advisor matters. Prior to joining White lodging, she worked at Hyatt Hotels, where she served as vice president and assistant general counsel, leading the legal team for Hyatt's new development and real estate activities in the Americas. Before her Hyatt role, Paula practiced as an associate in the Chicago office of Sidley and Austin, where she specialized in private and public mergers and acquisitions, securities transactions and JV transactions. And she also practiced as an associate in the Chicago office of Kirkland Ellis, representing private equity firms in the acquisition, governance, divestiture and finance of, portfolio companies. Paul earned a JD from Northwestern University and a, ah, master's in laws from the University of Michigan law school. So, Paul, obviously very impressive.

>> Paula Spada: Thank you.


How did your career start and how did you get in your current role

>> Michael Sachs: So I described it, just a little bit based on your bio, but do you mind just starting the podcast by just kind of walking through your career a little bit? How did you get from, kind of there to here? How did it start and how did you get in your current role? Sure.

>> Paula Spada: it's been a long road to get here. I started my career in Argentina. I actually started law school and I'm not sure, you know, this law school and engineering school at the same time.

>> Michael Sachs: I did not know about the engineering part of it. I knew the Argentina part, obviously, but.

>> Paula Spada: Not the engineering part, that lasted about one semester. and then it was law school all the way. I graduated, worked at a law firm in Argentina while I was in law school, which is typically the way it's done. And, I think my law firm made, a big mistake. They sent me to Hale and, or now Wilmer Hale for about six months to do an internship and learn, the Internet world because that was hitting Argentina and this was the early two thousands. And I kind of fell in love with how things were being done in the US versus what we were doing as local council for international Appliance.

>> Michael Sachs: Was that in Boston? Was that in Boston where you went?

>> Paula Spada: Yeah, that was in Boston.

>> Michael Sachs: Okay.

>> Paula Spada: Yeah, they had their, headquarters, I guess, in Boston. And that fueled the fire a little bit to say, I want to be where transactions get structured and negotiated, as opposed to on the other side of that fence where we just had the role of local council. So we advised on local law and executed, but we didn't really get to do the fun stuff. So, from there I did an LLM at University of Michigan, and the rest is history. Kirkland, one of the partners at Kirkland analyst was one of my professors, during the LLM, he insisted that I go work for them. I did. From there I did a full JD at northwestern. went to Sicily for a few years and, ah, then you found me. And, that made the transition into hospitality and hired hotels. and then white logic found me. And I've been at white for seven and a half years.

>> Michael Sachs: So I've got a couple of things to add. But one thing about your siddly time, because, I helped you, with that role at get that role at Hyatt, although 99% of it was your excellent work yourself. I just kind of guided the path. But I did do your references, and I remember one of your Siddeley colleagues had said that she was sick one day and you brought her up bowl of chicken soup. And that just told me so much about you, like a decade ago. I don't know if you remember that story, that anecdote, but I definitely remember that ten years later because it said so much about you and the way you think about people.

>> Paula Spada: I do not remember that. That's a good walk down memory of.

>> Michael Sachs: It because you've done so many nice things like that over the time, you can't remember that specific one.


White lodging is a family owned, um, hospitality business

so, can you tell us about white lodging a little bit? I mean, I don't know if many people know, but maybe what does white lodging do? where is it at? Tell us a little bit about that.

>> Paula Spada: So, white lodging is a family owned, hospitality business. And what we do is we develop hotels from the ground up. We own them. Asset management. We manage hotels for ourselves and for third parties. And a few years ago, we made a big shift from all types of assets to urban complex assets of the major brands. So mostly Marriotts, Hiltons, Hyatts, and now IHG, every hotel that we have, we call them complex assets because we also develop with them just unique, made from scratch restaurants, that are drivers of traffic, in and of themselves. So it's been a fun ride. I think we're one of the biggest, privately held hospitality companies.

>> Michael Sachs: That's great. That's great.


You talked about your transition from Boston to Sidley

I want to go backwards a little bit. You talked about a little bit your experience at hill and. Or this move to, the US from Argentina. what was that? You gave us the quick version of it, but, that transition, like, for you geographically, obviously not everyone does this, and not everyone stays here for a long time. not everyone gets a full JD like you did. So maybe just. I don't know, is there a way to sort of describe a little bit of what it was like between that tenure in Boston and maybe starting it, at Sidley a few years later?

>> Paula Spada: I think it was almost like beginning with the end in mind. I knew that I wanted to be, what I call in the kitchen. I wanted to be in the room where decisions are made, where things get structured, where the real big action happens. And it took a while because there was a lot to do. the LLM opened the door. Kirkland, was a great stepping stone. I knew that I needed a JD, even though I could have been licensed with LLM, I knew that I needed JD to understand, the law in this country, which is completely different from civil law. And I guess one step led to the next, and good work, led to good jobs. So it was fun. Looking back, I wouldn't change any of it.


How did you decide to get into the hospitality industry

>> Michael Sachs: Yeah, it was interesting that you knew that you wanted to be in that room, even back then, at the beginning of your career. Not everyone obviously, does know that.

>> Paula Spada: Well, we'll see.

>> Michael Sachs: I'm sure some days maybe you regret it when you're making certain decisions. So how did you make that decision to get into the hospitality industry? I mean, you've been in it for nearly 15 years now, but what made you kind of join the industry in the first place? Why do you think it's a good fit for you. Why have you stayed? maybe describe that a little bit.

>> Paula Spada: Well, you were the trigger for some of this, so it's funny that you're asking this question, but I never thought I would land in hospitality. I think hospitality found me, and I'm incredibly grateful for that. most of the work I did at Sidley was m and a deals for healthcare companies and private equity firms and financial services. So hospitality was not even in my radar screen. The reason why hired was so appealing to me at the time was, they were transaction driven, and I was a deal dog, and I, you know, that's. That was what, what made me get up every morning and go to work. the idea of real estate became incredibly appealing because you can actually touch your work, and now being at a company that develops hotels, it's even, it's even more real. I can. I can look at a hotel in certain cities and say, I saw that from the ground up. I bought the dirt, and we did every single agreement that got this thing off the ground. So, that was the second one. And the third thing about Hyatt was I was able to come full circle. And as my first job there was development in Latin America. I was able to use some of my skills that I knew I, would probably not be able to use in the US at all. So it was a perfect storm of good reasons that opened the door to an industry that I didn't think I'd be involved in. And now it's hard to think that I could ever leave. It's a fun, rewarding industry.

>> Michael Sachs: Yeah, it seems like one that a lot of people just like to get in. I mean, you hear about it, a lot of people get into it, and it's probably small enough that not everyone sort of, like, I had a media background, and so everybody in law school wanted to go into media, but not everyone can really make it there. Probably the same thing as hospitality. Probably a lot of people driven towards it, but there's not so many companies that everyone can actually do it. It's not like manufacturing, or pharmaceutical or something.

>> Paula Spada: It is. And I think a lot of people who are in hospitality have a true passion for the industry and for real estate and for all of the things that make hospitality what it is. There's a lot of soul in the business as opposed to a widget company. So that's one of the things I love about it.


You left Hyatt for white in 2016 to become chief legal officer

>> Michael Sachs: So we've had a number of guests on the podcast who obviously are general counsels, but, you might be the first one who's the, chief legal officer for a family owned business. And so, maybe, what drove you to that type of organization? when you left Hyatt for white in, I think it was 2016, what were the dynamics? And, I don't know, maybe what didn't you know then that you know now, or, what's that like for you?

>> Paula Spada: There's things I didn't know. Positive and on the other side of the balance sheet. But, you know, a friend recently, not recently, but I have a good friend who's a general counselor at a publicly traded company, and he asked that question. so I have a good analogy for it, and it's part of the reason why it was appealing for me to leave Hyatt. publicly traded companies are like. Like a big ocean liner. You have to test 172 levers and see how the ship's going to react before you even turn it. And you see opportunities come at you, but some of them you sail past because you weren't able to turn the ship on time. And family or privately owned companies? Family owned companies, specifically when you still have the founder alive. And, so there's a single decision maker. It's like driving a speedboat. You see something that you want, and you're able to execute because the decision maker is next door. And so if you present a good business case, it's done. And the next question is, when do you close? And I loved that about it, and I've enjoyed that. You know, as painful as it's been, because sometimes you have to move faster than you want or you can, it's been incredible.

>> Michael Sachs: And so did you have to. When you had this experience in Sidley and Kirkland? To a certain extent. And then you went to Hyatt, it sounds like you had to kind of learn a new way of thinking and maybe counseling when you took on the white lodging role. I mean, did that happen sort of immediately, or was it kind of a gradual thing, going from, I guess, a cruise ship to, I guess, a speedboat?

>> Paula Spada: I think, I've always had a bit of an entrepreneurial mind, so I welcome that. From day one, I was excited to be able to, have quick decision makers and think on my feet and go to execution. And by no means are we irresponsible on how we get a deal done, but there's less considerations. Right. does it underwrite? Yes. Can I get in finance? Yes. Is it in the right market? Yes. We don't have to think about how we will report how it's going to look on our publicly issued financial statements. We don't have to think about what the street is going to say about it. We move forward. So, no, I don't think I had to change my thinking much. If anything, it aligned with how I like to do things much better.

>> Michael Sachs: Yeah, I was just thinking, for maybe an average lawyer out there, it might be different, because ever since I've known you, I can also tell you have that entrepreneurial mindset, and I think you're very adaptable to different situations as well. I don't know if every lawyer could do that as easily. I know, having worked on some GC searches for family owned companies, I know that's one thing that usually they're pretty, worried about or concerned about as they interview candidates.


Clearly, COVID affected your business significantly in 2020

What it's worth, I would be remiss if I didn't talk about how maybe COVID affected your business in 2020. I don't know if you remember, but you and I met at a Starbucks, I think, near your office, I think the week before everything shut down in 2020. I don't know if you remember that or not. I was traveling back and we had a conversation, but clearly, COVID affected your business significantly. all hospitality companies. I hate to bring you back to those days that were probably horrible for a lot of people. What happened during those first several months? How and when did things begin changing back to normal? What did you have to do? Take us behind the scenes a little bit there.

>> Paula Spada: I do remember that meeting, actually. That was,

>> Michael Sachs: I can't remember if we shook hands or not. I think we weren't supposed to shake hands at that point. I don't remember.

>> Paula Spada: Probably did. So I'll put it in this context. You asked me, or I told you without you asking, that I had been at white for seven years. That year of COVID or the two years of COVID counted in dog years. So I've been at white lodging for 14 plus years. I should add that to my experience. I think what was, It was Armageddon from so many. From so many different fronts. we structure our business so that every asset stands on its own. So if you have a hotel that for whatever reason has a bad balance sheet, is in trouble, it won't touch anything else. You never expect that something is going to come along that is going to affect your entire portfolio in equal measure at the same time. And that is going to be that catastrophic. It was really a test. It, was a test to our liquidity to our financial planning, to our resilience as an organization, to the resilience of the industry as a whole, which I am impressed by. but it was tough because the bonds were coming from every direction. It was dealing with lenders every day. Every relationship that you had with the outside got tested, because when times are tough, every relationship gets tested. We ah, had to reduce our workforce from like 7000 employees to 400. It was a really tough time and we learned a few lessons. One of the things that worked incredibly well during that time was we had an executive team that was made of steel. We all pulled our weights, we all challenged each other, we got it done. We had an ownership group that was as committed as they could ever be to the business and had our back. But it took almost two years for things to look semi normal and a little over two for the finances to fully recover. So it was a giant blow to the system. the beauty of it is it tempered us, all of us, especially me. I grew more as a professional in that year than probably at any other period of my career. so we're stronger and more resilient than we learned a few lessons, but we have a couple of scars.


Communication is key when you have a crisis of that magnitude

>> Michael Sachs: I was going to ask that, right? I mean, in terms of what you've maybe learned from it, I don't know if there are specific things that you can still think of, ah, when you're doing your day to day now that you learned back then, or if it's more intangible than that at the end of the day. But I imagine it's hard for anybody to go through a circumstance like that and not learn something from it and not take it with them to the remainder of their career.

>> Paula Spada: I think, two big things that we learned and I think we actually did them right, but I would improve them if it happened again. I hope it never does. I'm knocking on wood, you can't see me. one is communication is key when you have a crisis of that magnitude, telling people what's happening, what to expect and what you're doing about it, and what you want them, to do about it. And keeping that communication alive at all times is just key. It's the only way to keep people engaged, loyal and not making bad decisions. And the second one, which I think a lot of the operating people are guilty of sometimes is executing for the sake of executing is never your good friend. In a time of crisis you actually have to, even if it seems like you're wasting time, you have to look at the big picture and, think about how what you do today is going to affect you. Six months, twelve months, you know, three years from now, even if you don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, you have to look at things strategically, and not everybody does. So in my mind, those were two of the big lessons. Breathe for a second, look at what's going on, and think ahead. Don't think just next day. And, that's tempting when you're in crisis, right? You just want to, like, I have a needle in my arm, I want to take it out. Well, for a minute.

>> Michael Sachs: Well, in some ways, it's also like, I mean, if you've lived here long enough, you've seen several crisis in America that it seemed like, how are you ever not going to think about this? You know, 911, the great recession, you know, this, and, you know, knock on wood again. But like, they usually do come to, I don't call it an end, but at some point, some sense of normality starts to start to creep in, back in again. And I guess the longer you do this, you realize that. And when you're 21 or 23 years old or whatever it is, you probably can't see it, but you get, I don't know what you want to call people like you and me seasoned. You, can start to learn that, right?

>> Paula Spada: Yep. Yes. But it takes a couple of those, or at least one.

>> Michael Sachs: I agree with that, and that was certainly a very unique one. Obviously, nobody had been through that before.


What's your elevator speech about being a chief legal officer

So, Paula, so you're a chief legal officer. This is kind of a broad question I ask everybody, you know, what's your, what's your philosophy as it relates to being a chief legal officer? I assume you're too busy to just think through that every day. But what's your elevator speech? You know, what do you do? What's your, what's the role? What's the, what's the mission of you for the organization?

>> Paula Spada: I can tell you what I would say if I had to hire somebody to replace me. I think as a chief legal officer, you have to be a business partner to your team. You have to look at every risk or legal decision as a business case, at every crisis a little bit, as an opportunity. but you have to be a business partner. You can't be the no person or the part of the business at that level. You're one of the principals. So first job, you have to be a business partner. And second one, you have to always be the person who thinks strategically, because I think operating people are biased towards action. And, we are the ones who can look at the bigger picture. Not necessarily to find the monster under the bed, but, to find the angle that's best long term, or to find the angle that's best for the company's long term vision. and then if I had to add a third one, you have to be a good communicator, not just in the sense of you speak well and you write well, but sometimes we play the role of translator between HR and the CEO or the CIO or owners or the board. sometimes operating as a person who can, distill a message into a language that that audience can understand is just as important.


What are the skills that make you successful as a general counsel

>> Michael Sachs: So, I know you hate this next question. Just, knowing you, but, you obviously have achieved great success in your career. I can imagine you blushing right now. but what do you think separates you from others? People that maybe you went to law school with, people you started your career with, skills that make you successful as a general counsel, because not everyone can carry out that function, even if they're wildly successful at a law firm or in house in a different capacity. But what are those skills, that got you to where you're at?

>> Paula Spada: That's a hard question to answer because it's time.

>> Michael Sachs: I know, but you're very. But you're very smart. But you're very smart. I know you can't. And I know there's things about you that got you there.

>> Paula Spada: I'll bring up two things that I think help in my current role. One, which I already mentioned, I have a fairly entrepreneurial mind and spirit, and I think especially in a, privately held company. And I would argue that the same is true in a public company. it helps because you become a business partner. You become somebody who is looking for a solution as opposed to telling you why you can't. Two things. So that one for sure. The second one, I think, to some extent on the glue that keeps a part of the glue that keeps the team together, that keeps those relationships oiled, and that, helps avert or sometimes, resolve conflicts and keep people focused. So I think maybe those are the two things today that really help or that set me apart from what others may be able to do.

>> Michael Sachs: I'm going to offer one as well, if that's okay. this is kind of an overused word for a lot of lawyers, but I actually think for you, it really applies. I think you have a lot of integrity. I think you can just tell it when you speak with you, and that probably engenders trust among your colleagues. I think everyone likes to think we all like to think of ourselves as somebody, but that's for a lot of lawyers, it's not the first word that comes to mind, but thinking about myself, how I would describe you, it seems like you're somebody with a lot of integrity, and my guess is that your team sees it that way, which is probably really important. For what it's worth, thank you.

>> Paula Spada: That is a giant compliment. So, thank you.


How do you balance being candid and being respectful when giving feedback

>> Michael Sachs: So now let's have another thing. So, over the years, we've had many lunches. We worked together, many, years ago. So sometimes you've used the words candid or direct, and you're not the only person, obviously, I hear that from a lot of lawyers. Over time, you're already laughing. But how do those, I'm always curious, how do those attributes manifest themselves in your day to day? And you're aware, of course, if somebody's too candid, it obviously can be a problem, too. So how do you balance those qualities? You remain successful, and you don't go too extreme in one direction.

>> Paula Spada: Some people say the word is blunt.

>> Michael Sachs: Well, it's funny because all those have different candidate connotations. You can read those all as positive, and I guess you can perceive those another way, too. So I'm sure for you it's positive. But how do you. Yeah, how does it show?

>> Paula Spada: I think to manage it, you have to add a word to it which is respectfully blunt. And, I think respect comes, in two flavors. To put it in some way. the first one is you actually have to be respectful when you deliver the message, as direct as it may be. you always have to be respectful of the other person. But I think the second piece is also managing your audience and making sure that the person that you are giving that message to has, the confidence and the intellectual capacity to actually receive that message. I work with somebody who used to say, feedback is a gift, and he used that expression to be able to say whatever he thought he. He had a right to say. And that's really not what candid or direct means. you have to pick your audience, and you have to know who's able to receive that message. And you're actually not helping that person if you're delivering a message that they're not ready to hear. Sometimes you have to body punch and try to get it across in multiple different ways. Eventually it gets through. But, yeah, I think that the key is respect, if that makes sense.

>> Michael Sachs: Does. To your point about feedback, too. It's interesting. I have a mentee at the company, and, we were just talking about this today, about this person wants something and they want to get feedback from people. And I was telling this person that, like, not everybody, everybody always says they want feedback, but not everybody really wants the feedback. And so, somebody who can actually, Somebody who can actually get it, somebody who can actually deliver it to them in a very respectful way, to use your word, is. That is rare, because not everybody, and not every company, is good about that.


What do you look for in a CEO, a chairperson

Paul, what do you, So we've talked about your style, but you've obviously had people you've reported to that you worked with at Hyatt, at certainly in white. What do you look for in a CEO, a chairperson, anybody who you kind of report to? What do you think your role as, vis a vis this person? What is that relationship like?

>> Paula Spada: this is a great question, actually, because having a great CEO, is like picking a good partner in life. It can make it or break it. And there's three things that I look for in that person, I think. One, they need to have a strategic mind. They need to be a visionary. Two, they need to have an appetite for risk, because otherwise you're just going to be training water. And the third one, I think that is one of the most important ones, is they have to see people, and I'm using air quotes to see those people that they want in their team and be able to manage them. And, I don't think you can describe it. It's one of those things that, you know, when you see it, there are very few of those people out there. And now I realize that really very few of those people out there. I've had the joy of working with more than one. And it's a lot of fun. It's hard, it's challenging. They challenge you beyond what you think you can do. but it's a wonderful thing when you find one of them. And I think if I think of my role, working with at least two of those people that I think have been incredible is I help them see around the corners because they're moving. They're moving fast. And sometimes somebody has to help you see around those corners, and then you have to enable their vision, and you have to help them get to where they're going. So that's how I see my role.

>> Michael Sachs: Yeah.


Bruce White, CEO of COVID, passed away from illness in 2023

I mean, I bring up, obviously, a topic that's, a sad topic. But, you recently lost a good friend and colleague and mentor. Ah, Bruce White passed away in 2023. went on your website. It's all there. Sounds like he had quite a legacy and it's probably an understatement. Do you mind describing maybe what he meant to your career and then also what it was like professionally to deal with the illness and ultimately the passing of someone who was such a force within the organization, had such a larger than life reputation and impact.

>> Paula Spada: this is hard. So, Bruce was. Bruce, was larger than life. He was, in his words, a leader, a mentor, a friend. from a career perspective, I think he provided a constant, relentless challenge and he pushed me beyond what I thought I had and made me proud of things that I've accomplished. So I will forever be grateful to Bruce for that. in terms of what happened, we knew that he was in a tough spot about a year out, but there was hope. And so, it, was a huge balance between being hopeful and very empathetic to the family. But, at the same time, in my role, I had to have some tough conversations and make some really tough decisions because, well, we all hope for the best. You plan for the worst. I remember Bruce and I having this exact conversation of me saying, I don't ever want you to think that I am not empathetic, but I have to plan for the worst. And he said, I agree, that's why you're here. We did a phenomenal job getting ready, for what we thought might happen, which eventually did happen, I think professionally. we didn't skip a bit. Everything was set and ready to go and that happened. What we didn't realize, and I think we realized looking back, is that, ah, from a professional point of view, we're super ready. From an emotional point of view, we were not. And that was the toughest piece because everybody at the company was grieving. And you can have the most perfect governance structure in the world, but when you have a group of individuals that is grieving, that is hard to wrangle. and, we did fine, but that piece was the toughest piece. The emotional, not the professional. Does that make sense?

>> Michael Sachs: Yeah, completely. I mean, it's the reason I asked this question. Obviously, I knew it was a tough topic and you and I have discussed it at lunches and by emails and things like that. So I knew it was tough, but because I don't know that every general, counsel has dealt with something like this, at a family owned organization, I'm not saying doesn't happen at large public companies as well. But it's a different beast there for all the reasons you were talking about before you going back to your cruise ship analogy. You know, here it's. It, and I. And by the way, I also know just the way you've reacted to it about how, you know, how. How impactful it was to you and how much he meant to you as well. And so I'm sure. And knowing your personality and knowing your style, I'm sure there had to be a little bit of that. I hate to use this phrase, but, like, that two hats sort of mentality for a while. And, of course, if I'm doing the math right, this was right after people were coming out of COVID And so you are probably just coming out of one long two year crisis right into this one.

>> Paula Spada: Yeah. And I would say part of what happened for us was the two years of COVID we stopped developing hotels because cash was scars and cash was king. And so we hit the brakes hard. The moment we came out of COVID Bruce being who he was, stepped on the gas and flirted and said, let's just go buy things and develop things. Just do, do, do. So we never had a break because we came out of COVID We started to move as fast as we could, and then Bruce got sick. So it's been a few years. so, see, now my experience has gone from 14 years to potentially, what, 40 something.

>> Michael Sachs: The longer this conversation go on, you're going to hit the century market. You're going to hit the century mark. There's.

>> Paula Spada: I think I'm just going to retire when we're done with this conversation.

>> Michael Sachs: There's a lot of people, I'm sure, who do not want you to retire, so don't do that. I don't want them to blame this podcast on that. or that on this podcast is what I meant.


What are the things that keep you going in your career

so, Paula, by any measure, your career has been incredibly successful. But if you think about it, we probably talked about it a little bit today. But what are those major accomplishments of your career, things that keep you doing this job? Maybe the things you're proudest of? I'm sure some of them are at white, and some of them might be other places you've worked.

>> Paula Spada: I think it's, leaving a mark in the places that I've been leaving an organization better than it was before. I think that is true. Harder to say at a law firm, but I think that is very true at Hyatt, and it's very true at white, not just building something for the organization, which I know I've done in both places, but also the people that you touch along the way. you know, what they learned from you. and it doesn't even need to be somebody who worked for you. It could be a colleague or a team member. I learned this from this person, or I like this style, and so I've adopted it. And I feel the same way about people who have mentored me. So that's where I would park that one.

>> Michael Sachs: So I was at an event recently, and somebody talked about how when a GC or a COo is hired, they're not hired as much to run the legal function as they are to be a member of the executive team. so it was a good wake up for me, again, to realize how important that part of it is, fitting in, being part of a contributing member.


What does it mean to fit in with an executive team

But again, take us behind the curtain a little bit. What does that mean to fit in with an executive team? Does that mean liking each other? Is it more complicated? How does one. Or how did you meld in? What would you say to. To other gcs? Just getting the job for the first.

>> Paula Spada: Time, it's not about liking each other. It's definitely not about liking each other. I think there's a bit of chemistry there, and I can't put it any other way. you know, when you have a team that works like a machine that works really well, they can get in a room, they can hash it out, they can challenge each other. they can have a bit of humor. But more importantly, I think, is the ability to be in a room or in a situation together where everybody can speak their mind, where everybody knows that they can safely challenge each other. And, that when you get to a decision and there's going to be winners or losers, everybody closes ranks and can execute on that decision, and nobody's rolling backwards. it's rare that you have a team that works that way all the time, but I think when you do, and I. The highest form of that I've experienced was the middle of COVID And I think it's because we had a common goal and a common enemy, but we worked so well. And I hate to put it this way, but it was so much fun because it was like a machine, like a race car that just worked really well. I mean, I remember having a heated discussion. this was right before we closed the office. I had a heated discussion with, our then CEO in front of us on the executive team about closing the office. And we got done with the discussion that everybody thought was the end of the world. And he looked at me and said, you want to do lunch? Sure. Where are we going? We left, and the rest of the team was like, what just happened? But that's part of what the team needs to look like, right? You have to be able to push each other and get to the right conclusion and then move on.

>> Michael Sachs: Yeah, that's probably right. And to your point about, you kind of know, when you see it, well oiled machine, you know, I'm guessing that if there's sort of one person that doesn't quite click with everybody else, that probably it's just enough to kind of make the thing a little lunky. Everybody kind of knows it probably immediately gets a little bit awkward. Can be challenging for the candid conversations to take place.

>> Paula Spada: I think when you have a person that doesn't. That doesn't fit. there's two ways to address it. To shun them or to help them along, and you're just as guilty if you push them out. there's so many ways to get somebody out of their shell now. The person is convinced that they're going to roll backwards. Well, then there's different decisions that you have to make. But, I think, even the most difficult of individuals can be brought along if you make room for them.

>> Michael Sachs: Yeah. And it's probably different styles, too. Just even if it's a difficult, it could be that baby, a different team they might be better at or whatever. I mean, to your point, it's a little bit. Can't put your finger on it, but it's probably a little bit intangible.

>> Paula Spada: In my mind. It is. And it also takes people. It doesn't happen on its own. I think it also takes people within that team to work to make that happen. I know that I work every day when I see issues because sometimes I see them coming to anticipate them or to smooth things over. And I'm not the only one in our team who does that. and it's like any relationship, you work at it every single day. Yeah.

>> Michael Sachs: And your point about the. When you were.


You touched on a subject that is actually really difficult. Compensation brings some different shades to the table

One other thing you said really resonated me with, which is that during COVID you had this kind of common enemy, so to speak, and people, again, you were kind of happy doing it because everybody was there, I imagine, because of the stakes there and because it was so many common, there was maybe even more of, like with most companies. Forget about white for a second. Probably this term of like, we have to get this work done in a minimal amount of time with this unique crisis. I imagine if a board is talking or an executive team is speaking with about an issue like compensation or something more mundane, so to speak, it might be a much more challenging dialogue because it's almost like the stakes are lower, which allows people, maybe some people's horror instincts to come out as well. And maybe when you have something like COVID or something that's a once in a, hopefully once in a lifetime crisis, everyone's best selves show up in those meetings and conversations.

>> Paula Spada: You know, that is an excellent point. 

>> Michael Sachs: So what's, what's, what's next? What's, next for you? So you, not in terms of another job. I know you love the company. Everybody's going great there, but are there certain career aspirations you're looking to achieve? what, other things you want to do, maybe even outside of your career, what do you think of? What do you dream about? What are you aspiring to?

>> Paula Spada: We've come a long way, but I still think that, there's a lot of Runway in front of me. I don't know what's next. and I don't know what the next step or piece of the puzzle looks like. a lot of what I do on a daily basis, if you read the role of a general counsel, you, might as well shred it and throw it away, because the general counsel piece of my role today is maybe 2020 5%. The rest is what I like to call the kitchen sink. There's business pieces, there's all kinds of other stuff. And the more I dip my toes into the business side, the more I like. So I don't know what's next. but I'm sure there is growth around the corner. and then from a personal point of view, you know that I've become an avid runner, so, I'm hoping to complete a few more marathons. I actually, You know that I'm running Boston on Monday, right?

>> Michael Sachs: You did mention this to me as well, so that's another reason why I'm so glad you did this. is this your first one? I didn't ask you that.

>> Paula Spada: Now, this is number four.

>> Michael Sachs: Wow.

>> Paula Spada: and so the goal is to complete all six majors. And so this, if I. And I'm not going to work again, if I can finish this one, it will be number three of the majors. And then. And then I'll have the three international ones left. So we'll see. Maybe the next time we talk, we'll have some.

>> Michael Sachs: Have you always been there? I don't mean to go on a tangent, but have you always been around? Is this something you've picked up over the last few years?

>> Paula Spada: No, I picked this up over the last two years.

>> Michael Sachs: Yeah. Wow. That's incredible.


What are the three, uh, majors internationally? I don't even know those

What are the three, majors? internationally? I don't even know those. Maybe our audience doesn't know them.

>> Paula Spada: So, I'm going to answer off topic. So Chicago, Boston, and New York are the three majors in the US, and then Berlin, Tokyo, and London are the other three that are offshore.

>> Michael Sachs: And you haven't done any of those yet?

>> Paula Spada: No. Yet is the keyword.

>> Michael Sachs: Yes. Okay, well, that is a fabulous goal, and it's probably one of the best answers I've gotten in this about what are you looking to do outside of your career. next. So that is wonderful. I did marathons early in my life, and I retired at 29, so more the power to you for doing them.

>> Paula Spada: I think you're smarter than me, Michael, but that's okay.

>> Michael Sachs: I know that's not true, but, Well, Paula, thank you for joining us today. It's always great to speak with you, and thanks so much for sitting down with me.

>> Paula Spada: Thank you for having me and have a good rest of the day.

>> Michael Sachs: Absolutely. That will do it for this episode. we would love to get your feedback on these podcasts. Feel free to email me@msaxlaglobal.com and tell me what you liked, what you didn't like, and any suggestions for future topics of episodes. In the meantime, our current plan is to roll out one of these podcast episodes about once a month, so be on the lookout for new episodes all year as they become available. So long, everyone. Thank you for listening to in house legal uncovered. Join us next time time as we dig into another topic that will better help you navigate your in house legal career.